UN at 80 – Due for Retirement or Still Vital for the World? – United Nations Association Coventry Branch

On 26 June, the 80th anniversary of the signing of the UN Charter in 1945, the BBC PM programme broadcast the above interview with Mary Robinson, previously the President of Ireland (with approval ratings frequently over 90%) and then the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.

Table of Contents

Background to this interview

2025 is a year for the UN and its members to reflect on the many successes of the UN during the last 80 years, but also to consider its problems. As we previously reported, the UN Secretary-General António Guterres launched the UN80 Initiative on 12 March 2025.

In a world grappling with growing crises, deepening inequalities, and eroding trust in global institutions, UN80 is a system-wide push to strengthen how the UN serves people everywhere, streamline operations, sharpen impact, and reaffirm the UN’s relevance for a rapidly changing world. More about UN80 here.

But in the face of on-going wars and the Russian threat facing Europe, in 2025 nations including the United Kingdom are reducing their contributions to international aid in order to spend more on building up their armed forces. This means the UN has less and less money to spend on life-saving services. For a review of the problems facing the UN and how UN80 is trying to cope delivered on 24 June, see this UN News article.

Note the UN Charter actually came into force on 24 October 1945.

Full text of the broadcast

BBC: The United Nations is 80 years old. On this day in 1945, the founding document, the Charter, was signed by 50 member states determined to build on the ruins of the Second World War at the conclusion of a conference in San Francisco. Here’s how it was reported at the time.

British Pathé: The Charter of Mankind’s deepest hopes. Humanity demands that this be the Magna Carta of lasting peace. The final speech of the conference was given in characteristic spirit by President Truman.

President Truman: If we had had this charter a few years ago, and above all the will to use it, millions now dead would be alive. If we should falter in the future in our will to use it, millions now living will surely die.

BBC: That archive there from British Pathé. Well, the UN, according to its charter, aimed to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war. Now, the organisation is much expanded in both membership and responsibilities, but conflict is raging across the world and the UN has struggled to respond. UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres, speaking today, said the UN was facing unprecedented attacks on its founding principles.

Antonio Guterres: Let’s be clear. Today we see assaults on the purposes and principles of the UN Charter like never before. The threat and use of force against sovereign nations. The violation of international law, including international humanitarian law and international human rights law. The targeting of civilians and civilian infrastructure. The weaponization of food and water…

BBC: Well, Mary Robinson is a former president of Ireland and was UN High Commissioner for Human Rights between 1997 and 2002 and joins us now. Good evening, Mary. Thanks so much for being with us. What shape would you say that the UN was in as it turns 80?

Mary Robinson: I think the UN in itself is in relatively good shape, but unfortunately, member states of the UN are not upholding their principles. Not all of them. Many of them do want the multilateral system, do want the rule of law. But some powerful members, unfortunately, are prepared to breach and forget their responsibilities. And that is the real problem. We see it in the Security Council. It’s the P5 countries misusing the veto, particularly the United States, Russia and China.

BBC: And you have an America under its current leadership basically no longer championing the very values that the UN was built on.

MR: And that of course has a knock-on effect, if I could put it that way, because once a country that claimed to be a champion of democracy and the rule of law and international human rights undermines these principles, you quoted the words of President Truman in 1945, “the will to use it”. And if we falter in the will to use it, that’s what’s happening. It’s not the UN that should be blamed or undermined in some way. It’s the member states in their faltering on what they committed to and all that has been built up since. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the whole framework of human rights, the way in which children are more protected, the maternal health is much better. The economy of the world has improved very significantly in the last 80 years under the reasoned rule of law which brought about relative peace, and it is the breaches in recent years, and notably the aggression of Russia in attacking Ukraine, the response of Israel to a terrible assault and kidnapping on the 7th of October of 2023. But it’s disproportionate and is leading now to an unfolding genocide, unfortunately, in Gaza. And more recently, the elders have been very concerned, the elders that I’m a member of, brought together by Nelson Mandela, we’ve been very concerned about the fact that the attacks on Iran, on the nuclear facilities in Iran in particular by the United States were not justified, are illegal under the Charter because they cannot be justified on Article 51 because there was no imminent threat.

BBC: I mean if you talk about the sort of guiding principles of the UN, I mean international cooperation is essentially in retreat. The very driving force behind the UN is not there.

MR: Well you know I addressed a group of states called the FOSS, the [Forum] of Small States. Many states of the UN, including Ireland of course, it’s a small state. Many of the small island states, but also other small non-island states. And they all want the multilateral system. Why? Because there’s a protection in it. Protection against bullies. If we only have the right of might, that if I’m more powerful I will crush my enemies, that is a terrible way to go and it would be an enormous negation of everything we’ve built up over the years. And the importance of rule of law, the importance of international law, they are as essential, they’re actually more essential now in our complicated, much larger-population world, much more numerous member states world. Of course the UN needs to reform itself. I’ve always been aware that it still reflects the power structure of 1945 because of the veto of five countries and many other major countries excluded from that.

BBC: Just briefly Mary, I mean where does the UN go from here? Where do you think it can carve out a role and a voice?

MR: I think the UN has to believe essentially in the importance of the normative values that it incorporates for the world. The values of rule of law, the values of international human rights, the values of environmental law, because these are what will save humanity. And what we need to do is to have coalitions of the states that are willing to continue to support the multilateral system, together with, below that, cities and sub-national states that are willing to support and can come together. And below that, business and entrepreneurs and civil society, indigenous young people. You know, we’re in a world where we can communicate more easily by social media, etc. Often it’s for the bad, but it can also be for the good. It can show that people do want to have leaders who will serve the people, not leaders who are autocratic, populist, short term, and undermining the rule of law. And unfortunately, President Trump is giving the worst of examples. And in fact, a lot of the things he’s doing are very stupid, pulling America out of the Paris Agreement, etc.

BBC: Mary, thank you so much. We’re going to have to leave it there. Mary Robinson there, former President of Ireland reflecting on the United Nations at 80.